I'd like to raise a final concern about the wording of this section



I think it is likely that these further discussions are likely to lead to changes in the language, and therefore change in the proposed laws. I would like for t he discussion to remain in the Proposed legislation subforum until it is final and for the voting subforum to be used for voting only.

The alternative, rather impractical, would be to move the bill back and forth between the Proposed legislation and voting subforums until it is voted with no further change.

Additionally, I thought the Dukes could vote via a bill in the House of Dukes, are their votes restricted to some aspects of Hermertia only?

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Lady Liserett of the House O'Kleefe
Countess of Chester-le-Ford, Wysteria
Deputy Minister of Hermertian History
Appointed Minister of Wysterian Architecture

I'm out right now but I'm pretty sure I can remember that dukes can propose legislation, and we can also veto legislation.

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Petra Ravnikaar of The Veil

I'm pretty sure he means that only the council can vote in that forum specifically, the dukes can vote on bills as well, just in their own house

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By the will of Azarn
-Erastil
-King of Pyrencia
-The Hydra
For a full list of titles, please see enclosed document.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=741

Ok, that makes sense, I got confused on that bit.

The rest of my concern still stands though

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Lady Liserett of the House O'Kleefe
Countess of Chester-le-Ford, Wysteria
Deputy Minister of Hermertian History
Appointed Minister of Wysterian Architecture

1)How Ducal voting works: If the Dukes agree on something they would like to see as a law or a constitutional change, they have the ability to create a bill in the House of Dukes. If it passes the House with a civil majority, the Council must recognize it and vote on it. This is why Ducal bills can end up in Parliament; they are sent there after they pass the House of Dukes and its time for the Kings to vote on them.

Under this reorganization, these Ducal bills (probably always going to be rare-ish, but good to have a precedent - see the Elytra bill) will proceed directly to the Council Voting subforum because they have to be voted on immediately by the Council of the Crowned. The process is used sparingly but is useful for issue of community concern - it was added so that the Dukes have a way of collectively bringing an issue to the spotlight, representing more of the community.

Does this make sense? Do let me know if anything's still unclear.

2) Council Discussion: The word "discussion" was included simply to recognize the Council's right to discuss what they are voting on and was not intended to describe the subforum as a place for extensive discussion. The point of creating a "Proposed Legislation" subforum is that everyone has a voice there and everyone - including the Council - should contribute to and debate on proposed legislation there. By the time a bill's language is finalized and ready to be sent to the Council subforum for voting, everyone on the Council who wants to contribute as the bill is being crafted, object to points, whatever will have had ample opportunity to have done so and will not have waited for it to come to a vote. Council activity in their voting subforum will be pretty much entirely voting, any discussion likely a formality - if heavy debate breaks out again for whatever reason (which it shouldn't as it will already have been extensively discussed, unless a King comes late to the party say) it would be obvious that the bill is not ready for voting and it could be transitioned back. Such occurrences would be rare though, and any system will get a couple bugs. I think that, overall, this system is much more organized than what we have now.

Hopefully this adresses your thoughts properly!

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Wysterian Labourer's Council
Currently Holding Stewardship of Wysteria
Minister for Applications and Settlement
Forums Administrator

Are we all on the same page with this? If not that´s fine of course, but if so let´s kick this thread into gear again and improve our Diplomatic Court!

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Wysterian Labourer's Council
Currently Holding Stewardship of Wysteria
Minister for Applications and Settlement
Forums Administrator

I propose temporarily waiting until we get the insoles carta versus criminal code sorted out (as they are different). I really do not believe forum rules should be in the constitution.

Yes, that´s fair.

But to be realistsic, this bill does two things: formalize existing forum guidelines and add subfolders to Parliament. I know the Criminal Code will take at least a bit to sort out, and dont see wh we can do some forum work in the meantime.

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Wysterian Labourer's Council
Currently Holding Stewardship of Wysteria
Minister for Applications and Settlement
Forums Administrator

Oh I agree about the administrative change completely. In fact, I hardly agree this is a change that requires a criminal bill, let alone a constitutional change. This can be done by an admin. Although, I understand that we want to avoid unlegislated administrative changes where possible, but I think this is literally as bureaucratic of a policy change as I have seen. Reaching out to the community, and asking for a vote, is downright awesome. But I don't think this is a legal nor rights issue. so ya, personally, this change could be made at any time and I wouldn't care. Especially given the appropriate review and community engagement that's been had.

Post edit: I just seriously don't think this is a constitutional issue. Ahaha