Vassal Retention

The Realms of Pyrencia, Wysteria, Laghima, and Östlaed have discussed a way to encourage Counts and Dukes to stay under their Liege Lord. Our method of vassal retention is based around making the ability to declare independence more difficult.

We see this as an important thing to do before our next advertising campaign.

The proposed language is as follows:

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice

Could you elaborate as to why you feel this is something which needs addressing? I fail to see why this required. If a Noble wishes to leave their Liege's lands and become independent they should be allowed to do so.

As someone who hopes to attain count rank and found my own independent lands soon, I would find it a deterrent to playing if the process of leaving were made more difficult without fair reason.

As we've seen elsewhere recently, organising the Council members to arrange a physical visit is no small task and would drag the process out unnecessarily

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Prince Septimus Cersil, Lord of Wychwood
Minister of Surveyors and Civil Engineers
Warden of the North
- Recipient of the Pyrencian Good Effort Award
- 2016 Winner of the 'Medal of S'alright'
- Stronger than an ant
- The Tallest

remind me to check this fully when I'm back later

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Petra Ravnikaar of The Veil

I'm a bit confused on the language.

First, does this relate to legal secession, in which a vassal is permitted to go independent and to take a parcel of land by their liege (e.g. Dawnstar), or to leaving one's liege to found a new realm after achieving the rank of count? Does it apply to both?

Second, does this pertain to rank ascension (as in, an independent Vassal trying to become a Count or an independent Count trying to become a Duke) or some other process?

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Ulrik Gunnarson
Duke of the Gathered Races of Hermertia Homeland (GRHH)
The Chairman of the GRHH Co.

Section 1 mentions that it is for independent realms.

This language does not allow for secession. It refers to applying to become independent, which is something we have provisions for. Currently, secession is not legal. I suppose I should add clarifying language to make sure this cannot be used for such a situation.

It has nothing to do with rank ascension, and doesn't imply that either. It is only addressing when a count or duke under a liege wants to go independent.

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice

But why is there a need to alter the rules for going independent?
I honestly don't see what it is trying to achieve

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Prince Septimus Cersil, Lord of Wychwood
Minister of Surveyors and Civil Engineers
Warden of the North
- Recipient of the Pyrencian Good Effort Award
- 2016 Winner of the 'Medal of S'alright'
- Stronger than an ant
- The Tallest

I must agree with vegueros, I do not see any need to alter this. Please can you explain why this is important?

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Ainmire Sera-Blodh of House Flenadrison, second of his name, King in the South, Ruler of Carrickshire, and slayer of false Kings.
"The Crippled King"
"Flanders"

This isn't a bill to necessarily take aim at current independent counts and dukes. It's something to make people really show they deserve their own independent realm. It's better to have super small builds scattered around the established areas, versus letting people build one or two buildings in an independent realm and quitting because of isolation or just normal disinterest. Yes, we have maritime fast travel, but the requirements are steep enough that it would be some time before people could get that established. With everyone else being quite connected, they could become disheartened easily if they really aren't the active/ambitious type.

While this hasn't' been a huge issue, there are currently at least 5 independent realms that didn't build very much, haven't been seen in years, and should have been vassals first. Three of those cases were old world players, but 2 (Caekka and Ordet Smi) built next to nothing then disappeared.

With the server trailer Siden is working on, we are going to see a lot more applicants. Inevitably, some will want to go independent, but perhaps shouldn't because of a multitude of reasons. This bill would try to keep players that aren't as active, aren't as ambitious from leaving their liege.

As far as the particular requirements, this is a suggested list that 4-5 of us came up with after a day of discussion in mumble. This thread is meant to discuss what we can do to help people retain vassals in the long run.

Again, this is not aimed at one person nor is it political. It's only to help liege lords retain vassals.

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice

I would argue that we have a good enough check on active players already.
A new player who is not particularly active and does not like to get involved is unlikely to achieve the rank of count in the first place, leaving them with their Liege by default.
Obviously this is dependant on the Liege in question, but perhaps a better way to approach this is to leave the requirements for founding independent realms as they are and instead come up with stricter, more uniform requirements to attain the rank of count?

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Prince Septimus Cersil, Lord of Wychwood
Minister of Surveyors and Civil Engineers
Warden of the North
- Recipient of the Pyrencian Good Effort Award
- 2016 Winner of the 'Medal of S'alright'
- Stronger than an ant
- The Tallest

That was an initial suggestion, but the obvious argument against that was the rights of liege lords to determine their own requirements for counts. The requirements are different from realm to realm. If you instead raise the bar for what is needed to settle an independent realm, it becomes less likely that someone who is just somewhat active achieves count under a lenient liege and settles off on their own.

While this isn't an issue currently and hasn't been much of one in the past (with independent realms containing more activity in general), we really do need to be more proactive and less reactive with issues.

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice