This proposal is no longer supported by Wysteria or Duke Nicholas II.

Greetings,

As part of the general discussion concerning the Carta and voting rights going on right now it has come to our attention that provisions should be made for suspension of voting rights under the rare circumstance where individuals are currently undergoing investigation by the Imperial Court or are in prison. The reasoning here is fairly straightforward: criminal trials and imprisonment should certainly continue to be a rare thing in our peaceful world, but it makes sense to limit an imprisoned Duke's voting abilities so that a) an individual imprisoned cannot affect legislation to teh same degree as Duke who have not committed a crime, and b) that same individual's inaction in teh legislative process wouldn't drag down voting thresholds for bills.

The proposed language is as follows:

Any individual awaiting legal trial by the Imperial Court or imprisoned following a legal trial will have their voting rights suspended until either released or the trial is concluded or is deemed inequitable.

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Wysterian Labourer's Council
Currently Holding Stewardship of Wysteria
Minister for Applications and Settlement
Forums Administrator

I agree with this proposition entirely.

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Hasan 'Darius V' Stark

Protector of the Vahnic Exploration Company
Ilkhan of Greater Karastan-Laghima

I support this law.

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice

I disagree with this language, in particular the part mentioning those awaiting trial. This is punishing accused persons before they have been convicted of anything, presuming they are guilty until proven innocent. This opens up the dangerous possibility of criminal charges being brought against a Duke or King solely to prevent them from voting on legislation.

I also do not agree that imprisoned persons should be universally denied the right to vote as the severity of crimes and the character of those imprisoned for them can vary and has varied greatly.

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Ulrik Gunnarson
Duke of the Gathered Races of Hermertia Homeland (GRHH)
The Chairman of the GRHH Co.

Withholding until some changes are made.

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Petra Ravnikaar of The Veil

What Chairman said.

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Gimpy/The Italian Stallion

It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door, You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." -Bilbo Baggins

Duke of Kaine

In agreement with Chairman here. Voting rights should certainly not be revoked while under investigation (presumption of innocence and all that), and arguably should only be revoked when found guilty of serious crimes (i.e. accidentally killing someone is illegal and punishable by law, but is not so severe as to warrant the removal of voting rights during the resulting punishment period).

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Guardian of Casadia
Master of the Slayers Guild
Minister of Hermertian History

After some discussion in the mumble, we have come up with some revised wording

Any individual awaiting legal trial with evidence to create reasonable suspicion by the Imperial Court or imprisoned following a legal trial will have their voting rights suspended until either released or the trial is concluded or is deemed inequitable.

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By the will of Azarn
-Erastil
-King of Pyrencia
-The Hydra
For a full list of titles, please see enclosed document.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=741

While this language is a slight improvement, it (partially) resolves only one (and actually the least) of my concerns -- the use of this as a political weapon. Still, one should not be punished before conviction and we shouldn't universally deprive the imprisoned of voting rights.

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Ulrik Gunnarson
Duke of the Gathered Races of Hermertia Homeland (GRHH)
The Chairman of the GRHH Co.

Still in agreement with Chairman here. Any punishment (i.e. loss of voting rights) preceding determination of guilt is a non-starter for me.

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Guardian of Casadia
Master of the Slayers Guild
Minister of Hermertian History