Ah, yes indeed, although I understand the appeal of having a more rigid, structured process for kingship. As long as the system allows for wiggle room as there is always to case by case exceptions. E. g. if someone builds an entire kingdom underwater, that should weight extra in the balance. Or if Atryl wanted to become king, I'm sure the time and energy he pours into ensuring that we have a Hermertian server, forum, library and mumble channel count for something in terms of achievements.

I have an idea, what if we kept the point system, but made it more flexible, I'll post it in the other thread.

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Lady Liserett of the House O'Kleefe
Countess of Chester-le-Ford, Wysteria
Deputy Minister of Hermertian History
Appointed Minister of Wysterian Architecture

I think it could also be helpful to accompany the guidelines with examples of what others have done (in terms of build, lore, etc.) to earn count status. It is pretty clear that the threshold for serfs becoming counts has been raised over time by the lieges of Hermertia (I am as guilty of this as anyone). When the Chairman became a count, he merely had to have one well-developed settlement and some lore background for his character/people. Now counts are having to build two or three settlements just to even begin the conversation with their lieges about ascension. I think we can reverse this inflation by examining what it used to take to become a count. Obviously the threshold for count status will still vary slightly from liege to liege, but giving serfs and lieges a tangible representation of what is required to become a count would be helpful for both parties.

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Guardian of Casadia
Master of the Slayers Guild
Minister of Hermertian History

I can't say I agree with that... the requirements seem to vary wildly in my opinion, in some cases a settlement and some lore don't even appear to be a minimum.

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Lady Liserett of the House O'Kleefe
Countess of Chester-le-Ford, Wysteria
Deputy Minister of Hermertian History
Appointed Minister of Wysterian Architecture

Good points here. I had, when I was progressing through the ranks under Scrios in Perth, never any doubt as to what was required of me due to his diligence and clarity of purpose for getting his points across. I was taught the Values of Perth and the Greater Realm of Valyria.
I was also told what would be conducive towards getting higher rank: Housing for your people, Food source for your people, Infrastructure (roads/netherlines) and some flavour buildings sprinkled in. Being active on mumble at every possible opportunity afforded me easy access and consistent updates on how I was doing.

It should be available on the website however for ease of access with people who have no liege or are not able to be in contact as much.

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Petra Ravnikaar of The Veil

I personally support the independence of individual leiges to have completely their own set of requirements for promotion as they see fit because every realm is different and can thus have their own focus (whether that be lore/builds/community interaction or w,e)

The guidelines seem a good idea to show new players what they should target but for independent serfs should these guidelines also have a legal weighting because atm there can be a wide variety of individual requirements for each duke/king which all have to be satisfied simultaneously for ascension.

In order to answer the questions raised in this thread, it may be necessary to define exactly what the purpose of the liege/vassal pairings serves in the first place.

Sure, from a lore perspective it makes sense 100%, but from a metagaming perspective, I am under the impression that this system ensures that newcomers have a guide to help integrate them in the vast, complex and rich world that is Project Hermertia. I think that the main themes we defined (building, lore, community) are pretty much core values of Project Hermertia and should be equally prioritized by all as they are what makes Hermertia what it is.

There are, as we discussed, different ways to approach these and there is I believe plenty of wiggle room for each liege's personality and priorities, while maintaining the core identity of Hermertia, building, lore, community. The list I suggest to be written as a guide is merely to help vassals understand the different ways they can contribute and help lieges consider contributions they might have missed and encourage contributions that may be lacking.

The ultimate decision should remain entirely at the liege lord's discretion. On the other hand, I think such a reference document could help clarify how to work toward a rank, encourage fair, complete assessment of prospect ascensions, and help maintain Hermertia's core values and identity.

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Lady Liserett of the House O'Kleefe
Countess of Chester-le-Ford, Wysteria
Deputy Minister of Hermertian History
Appointed Minister of Wysterian Architecture