As far as I can see the main 2 problems with the proposed changes are the point system and the inclusion of the other games section.
The section regarding other games, I believe should not be an integral requirement but should be considered under additional community involvement, something to gain brownie points as it were.
As for the point system, when it comes to kingship a formulaic approach would be beneficial. A set policy that means individuals must meet minimum requirements so that all potential candidates are considered on the same basis, with the same regulations guiding all. This would prevent a situation arising where someone can be rejected by the council and say but you let this person be king. A point system allows us to show measured evidence for kingship.

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Ainmire Sera-Blodh of House Flenadrison, second of his name, King in the South, Ruler of Carrickshire, and slayer of false Kings.
"The Crippled King"
"Flanders"

Its still a * bid * to become Kingship, these separate things that you can do are there to give you choice, the points system would ensure that there is enough of a bid there in the first place before your bid is reviewed by the Council. Its not a " get 20 points and automatically become King"

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Petra Ravnikaar of The Veil

Forgive me if I am a bit off topic here, but I think it might be interesting to have a similar system for ascension to rank count and duke.

It obviously wouldn't require the same level of detail, but there's currently very little on the topic. Vassals ascension are currently processed at the sole discretion of their liege and requirements seem to vary substantially from one to another. I would love to see some sort of guidelines, as well as perhaps a small showcase of the achievements leading to the new rank. Involvement on various aspects should be encouraged from all, not only for kingship applicants.

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Lady Liserett of the House O'Kleefe
Countess of Chester-le-Ford, Wysteria
Deputy Minister of Hermertian History
Appointed Minister of Wysterian Architecture

The reason we don't have that system is exactly what you've stated, many lieges requirements are very different. I think it should stay that way, though if you disagree feel free to argue your point.

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Gimpy/The Italian Stallion

It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door, You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." -Bilbo Baggins

Duke of Kaine

Unfortunately, the level of my frustration build up in that aspect is too high for me to make a case without obvious and potentially harsh comparisons. I'll just say that I think it would be a good idea. If I'm the only one, then the case is dismissed and that's fine. But I do love transparency and a certain level of coherence.


EDIT: I would hate for this message to be misunderstood. I am happy I worked hard to deserve the rank that was granted to me, I do not think it was too early or much too late and that is not the source of my frustration. This being said, other instances of rank ascension makes me wonder just how significant (or insignificant) the work I put into it was, at the extent that it is difficult for me to even be proud of having attained countship if it seems to be granted based what the word subjective doesn't begin to describe. It would be nice to have flexible, but clear and transparent guidelines.

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Lady Liserett of the House O'Kleefe
Countess of Chester-le-Ford, Wysteria
Deputy Minister of Hermertian History
Appointed Minister of Wysterian Architecture

Taking these one at a time:

Count ascensions now occur entirely inside of a recognized realm and under a liege who is a Duke or King, as all newcomers now begin under a liege. We have traditionally left lieges a fair amount of leeway in regards to rules they must follow and requirements they must achieve; two examples here include contracts that lieges may sign with their vassals (not under the purview of the Mercurian Courts) and taxes lieges might choose to levy on their vassals (same story). Much the same goes for requirements for ascension to Count, and I am personally somewhat inclined to leave it that way. But of course I respect your point Liserett; it bears more thought, and I look forward to seeing others' thoughts on this.

Ascension to Duke is a bit trickier, as we have two scenarios: either a) the Duke is promoted inside a Kingdom - i.e. myself in Ertia or Sam in Perth (see arguments above, as they apply much the same way) or b) the Duke is promoted by the Council of the Crowned. In this case, I agree that it might certainly be time to update the language on requirements for promotion - the question then becomes in what ways. I believe that a good amount of the discussion on Kingship above is probably transferable.

Thoughts? I'm really glad Liserett raised this point, as it's one we haven't touched on a tall so far.

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Wysterian Labourer's Council
Currently Holding Stewardship of Wysteria
Minister for Applications and Settlement
Forums Administrator

Let's discuss the Count and Duke ascension in a different thread to keep this one on track

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Ainmire Sera-Blodh of House Flenadrison, second of his name, King in the South, Ruler of Carrickshire, and slayer of false Kings.
"The Crippled King"
"Flanders"

I personally would be strongly against any official weighting for playing other games. Fairplay if a particular king wants to take this into account privately with his vote but the idea of officially applying points for a game that not everyone has/likes/can run is very troubling.

Scrios man, get in here and help me.

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Petra Ravnikaar of The Veil

It does seem to me that supporters of the alternate games counting toward the kingship requirements is mostly supported by the people who play the alternate game.

Here's the opinion of someone who doesn't play them, regarding the social aspect of the argument: When I hop on mumble and no alternate game is being played, conversation is typically varied, pleasant and inclusive. When an alternate game is in progress, conversation is replaced with game talk, except for the occasional comment or burp noise. I personally try to avoid talking about Hermertia or anything else as I feel like I'm interrupting. The majority of the people present on Mumble might be playing, but if others log out because of the game, like I sometimes do, then it's no surprise. You say it helps the social aspect, but most evenings lately, I am pretty much playing alone on Hermertia. I'm not saying you guys should stop playing Civ 5, but please don't assume it is highly beneficial to Project Hermertia.

In my opinion, not only it should not count toward Kingship status, but while a game is in progress, players should graciously bring the game talk to the non-Hermertia channel.

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Lady Liserett of the House O'Kleefe
Countess of Chester-le-Ford, Wysteria
Deputy Minister of Hermertian History
Appointed Minister of Wysterian Architecture