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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 25th, 2016, 9:20 pm 
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Joined: May 31st, 2015, 3:32 am
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I wasn't saying the debate should end I was saying I was done on my end. Too much time spent on this topic already.

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 25th, 2016, 9:24 pm 
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Joined: April 28th, 2016, 6:15 pm
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Scrios IV wrote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I wasn't saying the debate should end I was saying I was done on my end. Too much time spent on this topic already.


Agreed, this should have never happened. I discussed this with some Kings hoping they'd talk to Reginald about it, but they either declined due to fear of retribution from other Kings/Reginald or didn't see the problem despite community thoughts on the subject.

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 25th, 2016, 9:30 pm 
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Joined: May 31st, 2015, 3:32 am
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No fear of retribution just simply don't agree with this topic. We always consider the community's viewpoints and I don't believe the entire community views this in one way or the other. I have considered the important points within this argument and have come to my conclusion. This is my stance on this topic. Same may agree or disagree, that is the world we have and it is an awesome one to be part of.

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 25th, 2016, 9:34 pm 
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Of all the people I've discussed this with, only you and Sam have disagreed with the rest of us. It was discussed for at least 2-3 days off and on before you ever heard about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 25th, 2016, 9:38 pm 
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King

Joined: June 1st, 2015, 1:07 am
Posts: 163
I would have to agree with Scrios. Although the office may no longer stand this was created ages ago. Long before many of you became members. Kings are offered some wiggle room for their crowns. I have a hard time seeing the big problem. If you don't like how it looks similar to the Emperor's, make a new crown. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is mine.

As for the witch hunt. This or may not be part of it. Howerver, recent allegations for Alcona show me people are still looking for things to bring ups. The Regent has come clean on a lot of things and served a long time away from the server. People always say tthey want people to spend more time of the forums, well now you have it.

Tired of all the bitching. Tradition and some connection to the Old World, our roots, has a purpose too. Not everything has to be a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 25th, 2016, 9:43 pm 
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Kyn wrote:
I would have to agree with Scrios. Although the office may no longer stand this was created ages ago. Long before many of you became members. Kings are offered some wiggle room for their crowns. I have a hard time seeing the big problem. If you don't like how it looks similar to the Emperor's, make a new crown. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is mine.

As for the witch hunt. This or may not be part of it. Howerver, recent allegations for Alcona show me people are still looking for things to bring ups. The Regent has come clean on a lot of things and served a long time away from the server. People always say tthey want people to spend more time of the forums, well now you have it.

Tired of all the bitching. Tradition and some connection to the Old World, our roots, has a purpose too. Not everything has to be a problem.


1. There hasn't even been a trial.

2. This isn't exactly comparable:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 25th, 2016, 9:52 pm 
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Joined: August 9th, 2015, 12:19 am
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It may not seem like a big deal, (after all, its just a crest right?) but it is about what it represents. I agree history is important. The thing that sets our server apart from others with a similar theme is our deep lore and rich history, but times have changed and so must The Regent. If he wants to call himself Regent within Minerva (a throwback to when the office existed and had relevance) then I'm fine with that, but to continue using the title as originally conceived gives an impression of arrogance and disrespect to everything we as a community have accomplished since he left

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 25th, 2016, 9:57 pm 
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Joined: June 1st, 2015, 1:07 am
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And that is your opinion. One that I do not support.

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 25th, 2016, 10:52 pm 
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Duke

Joined: July 7th, 2015, 9:01 pm
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The Regent wrote:
The style is actually for the Regent according to an act passed by the Emperor in the Old World. The Emperor's crown, as originally stylized, was even more fancy. I will try and dig for it.

History has its role friends. It connects past to future. The office of the Imperial Regency was ceremonial like the Emperor's. This crest predates every other crest in the Empire, except for Hotonotochi's. The Regency was borne to protect the office of the Empire, including in thr first days on Mercury Isle, and it's a ceremonial role taken very seriously. It's the same reason the Regent can never be Emperor, ceremonially speaking. Of course, as a staunch conservative of our traditions and values, I will work with my conservative allies to retain some ceremonial traditions for tradition-sake. Lest we forget who we are and where we came from.


While keeping history and old connections is nice and all, I fail to see the need to rival the Emperor by using such a grand and different crest from the rest of the Kings. Take a look at the other Kings' crests:

Image
Sam's crown is silver and bejeweled. Elegant and different, yet not rivaling anybody other's crown by making itself grand and big.

Image
Tiber's crest is also bejewlled yet golden and fits his crest nicely. It doesn't inflate itself to appear important, it stays level with the other council members'.

Image

Notice the most common crown on Scrios', something that fits his crest normally and shows he is a king. Just a king. Doesn't include his Valyrian titles, doesn't include any ministry titles, etc, etc.

Image

Notice Arjen's crown. Slightly different from Scrios', but still to the point, it's nothing dramatically special. It protects the title of King of New Ertia yet retains its simplicity by being normally sized, like the rest of the council.

Perhaps when the title of Imperial Regent existed and was accepted legally and socially (among community members and in imperial law), this crest would be fine. But now that we have abolished the Office of the Imperial Regent, now that we actually have a fair, open, and honest election for any council member to be Emperor, there is no point in using the crest. You can definitely put your own 'creative flair' on the crest and the crown (as others above have), and many will help you with that no doubt. However, using the big crown is just seen as generally not needed. That and using the crest that has historical significance with a set of characters/position who are going to be charged with criminal acts that practically set the world back in many ways, just sets a bad picture to many new comers.



Kyn wrote:
As for the witch hunt. This or may not be part of it. Howerver, recent allegations for Alcona show me people are still looking for things to bring ups. The Regent has come clean on a lot of things and served a long time away from the server.


With sincere respect, there is no witch hunt. Finding evidence against someone who has admitted to committing crimes is not a witch hunt. A witch that proclaims itself a witch does not need a hunt.

Kyn wrote:
The Regent has come clean on a lot of things and served a long time away from the server.


Does it matter how long he has served 'away'? Do the previously charged criminals' "time away from the server" come into factor with their cases as well? His punishment is not a measurement of how much time he is away from the server but will be the actual verdict after his case is handled by proper and legal measurements.


Kyn wrote:
People always say tthey want people to spend more time of the forums, well now you have it.


Yeah, I personally love that the forums has been bursting with activity these past months. But that doesn't mean that people can't bring a problem to public eyes when they see one and debate it fairly.

Kyn wrote:
Tired of all the bitching. Tradition and some connection to the Old World, our roots, has a purpose too. Not everything has to be a problem.


Tradition and connection to the old world as well as our roots does have a purpose. But when things from tradition and the old world start hindering progress that people of the community want, there will plenty problems.

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 25th, 2016, 11:01 pm 
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Joined: May 31st, 2015, 3:32 am
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Still don't see how a crown on a crest hinders progress... especially when he made it.

I didn't want to say it but I am going to. Put a vote on changing the crest for Hermertia if you have to or make a new one for the Emperor. We are forcing someone to change their long accepted crest for really no reason at all aside for the fact that some people (not all) don't like it. We continue to go around in circles on the same points that really don't make sense.

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