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 Post subject: On retconning.
PostPosted: July 7th, 2016, 9:21 pm 
King

Joined: February 24th, 2016, 8:29 pm
Posts: 555
Sometimes there is a real need for it, but too significant the retcon, the more significant we blur/screw up past events, histories, stories, albums, narratives, and memories. The longstanding tradition is that if we need to disagree with historical events, we soften it with messages like, "on modern times, academics disagree with the dated interpretation and instead believe...x"

To just entirely erase a huge piece of our history, is a bad precedent to set and a bad practice. Especially if these things are not voted on by the entire community. Hermertia is shaped by its history.. try not to frivolously erase it. Seriously guys.

Some basic standards/guidelines for retconning should be established.


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 Post subject: Re: On retconning.
PostPosted: July 7th, 2016, 9:54 pm 
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Duke

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 8:19 pm
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Location: Waterloo, ON, Canada
Not sure what this is about...?

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 Post subject: Re: On retconning.
PostPosted: July 7th, 2016, 10:20 pm 
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Duke

Joined: May 28th, 2015, 8:02 pm
Posts: 370
I suggest you listen to the other side of the argument before jumping to conclusions and calling for action through vaguebooking.

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 Post subject: Re: On retconning.
PostPosted: July 7th, 2016, 10:23 pm 
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King

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 1:05 am
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Location: Wisconsin, USA
I think that both sides have valid points. I haven't heard the lore that Aeries has discussed talked about before, however, parts of it do make sense. I think that ever think that is cannon currently with the way in which our ancestors came to the new world could fit within what Aeries has proposed as well. Let's all work together to find a proper solution :)

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 Post subject: Re: On retconning.
PostPosted: July 7th, 2016, 10:43 pm 
King

Joined: February 24th, 2016, 8:29 pm
Posts: 555
It's related to other discussions too. I don't think it hurts to discuss the community talking about how, when, why, and other guidelines for retconning, especially on the eve of resurrecting the library. I say this because changing one event can lead to a dozen if hours of work cleaning up related articles throughout the libraries and canon. There is a real purpose for retconning, but I'd be curious if folks had some thoughts on establishing tips or guidelines for it (I'm not even going as far as saying laws.. just a friendly community discussion).

Remember, the lore is community-built, so the community has something to gain or lose from major changes. Consulting the community should in theory be a requirement for canon that impacts interdependent lore (although purely domestic lore with little interaction is obviously much easier to change.)


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 Post subject: Re: On retconning.
PostPosted: July 7th, 2016, 11:15 pm 
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Duke

Joined: May 28th, 2015, 8:02 pm
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The discussion is fine but, the topic is worded to address a point that at the time of the post, you knew nothing about. Gimpy was confused because the post seems like an effect to a cause, and Arjen didnt even talk about the topic because he knew what prompted this post.

Though i do agree with the points in your second post. This has been an issue lately, especially after the Nicholas fiasco. It is a community decision, but I dont think a king vote should be required for revising illogical lore. I think talking it out with many of the larger server members would suffice. As with the Nicholas issue, the situation was talked out, though with some resistance.

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 Post subject: Re: On retconning.
PostPosted: July 7th, 2016, 11:34 pm 
King

Joined: February 24th, 2016, 8:29 pm
Posts: 555
It's not necessarily accurate to say I know nothing about that item good sir. You have disagreed with the traditional interpretation/lore since our earliest days here in the new world. This is far from a new topic, correct? I missed some recent iterations of the conversation (and apparently so did many others), but this is not new. To also be fair and frank, you said with an air of certainty that the topic's lore had been revised, and with those keystrokes, you erased the corridorlands history. Of course that was surprising. For that topic, it's good to see things find a middle ground, that both perspectives are true or contested by geologists and academics still. Cool! But it was equally as wrong for me to start this thread as it was for you to unequivocally state the issue has been officially retconned. Hence why some guidance on when individuals are accurate in saying history, especially history shared by so many, has been revised or entirely removed. I disagree it shouldn't go to a vote, or that it is okay to leave it as a mumble chat or something because no one will be able to track the academic debates. I would say, major retcons deserve a formal post and formal discussion, not informal ones, except in the cases where the different views are framed as 'academics disagree', which I think is totally cool!

These are my subjective perspectives on the matter of course. Me raising the topic here feels perfectly appropriate :) but perhaps not. Sorry for jumping on the topic good sir, or for stepping on toes


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 Post subject: Re: On retconning.
PostPosted: July 8th, 2016, 12:55 am 
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King

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 1:05 am
Posts: 473
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Both of you have great points. I haven't been involved with mumble much as of late, so I do wish that there had been some sort of post regarding this potential change, since many of us don't find our way into those discussions often. I don't really agree with the "newly" proposed lore, as there had been such history with the corridor lands and Concordia and such. Yes, Coton was the first founded town, but wasn't Concordia originally built as a connection between the two worlds anyways? So, just cause Coton was first founded doesn't mean that we could not have originally come from the Concordia area.

Anyways, shall we get an officially post going in parliament to discuss how we can solve this?

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 Post subject: Re: On retconning.
PostPosted: July 8th, 2016, 3:55 am 
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King

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 10:17 am
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Location: Stirling - Scotland
Could have a number of different seas around the outside of the Border with The Mercurian Empire. There could be a number of channels that could have been taken from the Chemical Straits from the Old World, which could come out above Ertia, or have come out somwhere on the West side of the map? Would explain the Fleeing and the fact that ships were desperately fleeing from the Old World, not paying attention as much to routes, just to escape was enough.

Concordia would be perhaps the quickest route available to us now with the eventual erosion changes to rivers ( over even just decades changes a lot!) allowing for access within the current borders, rather than risking the unknown far beyond the current Empire Borders, (the seas on/and beyond the borders).

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 Post subject: Re: On retconning.
PostPosted: July 8th, 2016, 8:23 am 
King

Joined: February 24th, 2016, 8:29 pm
Posts: 555
All fantastic points! One day we should draw a 'hypothetical Hermertia' that combines the two continents, based on the various prevailing theories of the known land.


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