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PostPosted: August 27th, 2016, 2:37 am 
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King

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 5:52 pm
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Both options are surely workable here, but I would argue that the Act should be voted into law for a couple of key reasons:

- I am very much sympathetic to the argument that we shouldn't 'clutter' our laws with a tonnage of lore - this is why we don't legislate, say, the process by which the mysterious Pyrencian blood works. However, I do believe we could and should safely allow this; while the Act of Definitions does include some lore, particularly concerning the origins of the ranks, it also includes valuable legal definitions not available elsewhere in our laws: the size and spread of lands typically overseen by those of different ranks, the legal recognition of the rank 'terms' as well as the option for local terms, the general responsibilities entrusted to those of specific ranks, etc. This Act contains more than enough legal language - needed language, as the above-mentioned definitions are not present elsewhere in our laws - to justify its inclusion in our laws.

- I do think we need to remember that we are at least in part reincorporating these laws so as to make them much clearer, much more in line with our community, and, crucially, much more user-accessible, particularly to newcomers. Newcomers and applicants looking to learn about our world won't be privy to the years of evolving lore that created the legal ranks of today, nor will they know exactly where to look in a new library for the history of these ranks and the duties of those that hold them. No, a newcomer hoping to get a feel of our legal structure might well begin by reading their way through our laws; when they see the powers and duties of ranks such as 'Count' and 'Duke', they will look for definitions of these ranks that include responsibilities, typical size of holdings, position within the rank hierarchy, and perhaps the origin of these ranks - this Act should be included and easily accessible within our laws in order to provide them and all others with that formal, legal, reference.

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PostPosted: August 27th, 2016, 2:52 am 
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King

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 10:17 am
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I agree with Nicholas there. Well said

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PostPosted: August 27th, 2016, 4:24 am 
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King

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 7:09 pm
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I also agree with Nicholas

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PostPosted: August 27th, 2016, 3:11 pm 
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King

Joined: May 31st, 2015, 3:32 am
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I apologize for my late response on this one. I agree with several viewpoints in this. Nic, you did a great job in providing some solid reasons why we should consider this, thank you for that.

I have a few ideas and will take a stab at it tomorrow (just about to leave my house for the day). It won't change much but due to the fact that this is a legal document, we should keep that idea going within the language of our legislation. Sorry I can't provide more detailed information just yet but I will draft up what I am trying to get at on my way to the wedding today.

Thank you all for providing detailed viewpoints and for trying to make our documents the best that they can be :) We are almost at the end I think!

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PostPosted: August 30th, 2016, 12:05 am 
King

Joined: February 24th, 2016, 8:29 pm
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I agree fully with the perspectives and articulations as well. Great work and great brainstorming reaching this.


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PostPosted: August 30th, 2016, 7:25 pm 
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Duke

Joined: June 1st, 2015, 12:47 am
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Perhaps we could pass a non-binding resolution that states community consensus on guidelines for each rank (e.g. usual size of holdings, duties), provides historical context for their existence, and indicates from what source our Empire and its nobility gain their legitimacy to rule (which is what I think the original act was talking about with the "representation of universal truth" and how the emperor can "recognize" kings). In this way, we don't make this a bill that gives any particular power to anyone, merely helps us better understand the what and why of each rank.

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PostPosted: August 30th, 2016, 7:31 pm 
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The problem is we don't have anything legal that defines that each rank or each political division even is, other than this act.

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PostPosted: August 30th, 2016, 7:41 pm 
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Duke

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The Indoles Carta does define the powers that each rank has, which is largely sufficient, but you are right to point out that it does not include some information, like descriptions of size (in terms of settlements within holdings) and the explicit hierarchy of these ranks.

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PostPosted: September 11th, 2016, 3:02 am 
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King

Joined: May 31st, 2015, 3:32 am
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Seeing that there has been some discussion on limiting lore within these definitions, myself and a few others on Discord have taken a stab at trying to make the definitions a bit more concise and try to limit overlap in other areas of our legislation (Nic you did a really good job!).

Counts

Holders and protectors of local plots of land recognized by the Empire as Counties are known as Counts. It is the duty of counts to be the protectors of local communities, coming with unique rights and privileges as prescribed in the Hermertian legislation. Counts may be lords of either independent Counties (with the Council of the Crowned as their liege) or counties inside of an established realm under a Duke or King. In some circumstances, Independent Counts with a minimum of (2) Counties may claim the honorific title of 'Grand County'. This title does not confer any additional responsibilities above a normal Count.

While the titles of 'County' and 'Count' are the land and rank legally defined and recognised by the Empire, alternative, localized, and equivalent titles for the land and the individual may be recognized and employed in formal diplomatic channels.

Counties

Counties may include multiple smaller holdings and settlements within one jurisdiction, either within the realm of a Duke or King or independently as recognized by the Council of the Crowned.

Dukes

Holders and protectors of vast regions referred to as Duchies or Grand Duchies. Dukes are respected and influential nobles in the Mercurian Empire for they embody the spirit of Hermetia through their prescribed duties within the Hermertian legislation. Dukes may be lords of either independent Duchies (with the Council of the Crowned as their liege) or Duchies inside of an established realm under a King. In some circumstances, Independent Dukes with a minimum of (2) duchies may claim the honorific title of 'Grand Duke'. This title does not confer any additional responsibilities above a normal Duke.

While the titles of 'Duchy' and 'Duke' are the land and rank legally defined and recognised by the Empire, alternative, localized, and equivalent titles for the land and the individual may be recognized and employed in formal diplomatic channels.

Duchy

Groupings of a minimum of three (3) counties are brought together under a single identity, either within the realm of a King or independently as recognized by the Council of the Crowned.

Kings/Queens

Kings and Queens are rulers of the great Kingdoms of the Mercurian Empire, sitting members of the Council of the Crowned and eternally recognised as divine. Once recognized as a ruler of a Kingdom under the Council of the Crowned, Kings and Queens will forever retain the divinity though may be recognized as inactive and/or be subject to dissolution at the discretion of the Council of the Crowned. The highest legal authorities of the Empire, the members of the Council of the Crowned may only be recognised through the unanimous consent of all active sitting members of the Council of the Crowned; they may stand for election to the position of Emperor of the Empire, are dedicated to reflecting the will of the peoples of Hermertia, and have sworn to uphold the spirit and values of the Empire.

Emperor/Empress

A representative of the divinity of the Mercurian Empire and the Council of the Crowned, the Emperor is tasked with the eternal responsibility of preserving the spirit and culture of the Empire.

Elected from within the ranks of the Council and equal in rights and abilities to each of the sitting members of the latter, the Emperor/Empress holds the responsibility of performing tasks as a representative of the Council of the Crowned, including but not limited to the crowning of newly ascended Kings/Queens to the Council and the delivering of announcements on behalf of the Council. The Emperor/Empress has the sacred duty of representing and encouraging the diversity and community of the Empire and of fostering communal ties and development; in this role, the Emperor/Empress holds the responsibility of representing the community in specific instances, including but not limited to officiating cultural events such as the Imperial Games, introducing communal initiatives and events, and travelling the Empire to foster international development and cooperation.

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PostPosted: September 11th, 2016, 3:06 am 
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Duke

Joined: July 7th, 2015, 9:01 pm
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Looks good to me. I definitely agree with a coherent approach that straight out defines these titles.

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