Several Dukes and Kings (primarily including Duke Nicholas, Emperor Myron, Queen Samyrrah, and myself, Ealdorman Accynnafon) have discussed potential changes to how land claims work via the creation of an Act to be included in the greater Imperial Codex.

I. Identify potential outcomes

First, we must identify what we would like to occur. There are several questions we have asked:

* Do we want to encourage, or at least allow the possibility of land claim wars?
* Do we want the Council and/or House of Dukes to have input on land claim expansions in an official, legal manner?
* What kind of restrictions do we want to impose on expansions where there is no conflict involved? What are the requirements for building to justify an expansion?

Those of us who have discussed this so far mostly agreed on the following three things:

* We don't want to prevent organic conflict in the form of claims wars.

* We don't want to burden the kings with unnecessary votes.

* We would like to discuss implementing some legal process for denying normal expansion claims.

The rest of this post proceeds assuming these three things are true.

II. Preventing Unjustified Claims

Currently, unjustified claims are simply prevented by peer pressure. It's not quite clear if this even has any legal power - what actually would prevent someone from claiming and building on land? Would the Council result to passing a bill? Would they simply not be allowed to claim that area should be considered from rank ascension? Sure, you're thinking this works just fine. Perhaps it does. It certainly has served the empire very well for years now. However, as time progresses, some of us feel that the Council should have a formal legal process to deny an expansion.

How to do this? Well, we could have a vote of Parliament for every expansion. However, that would add even more votes to annoy the Kings with just to get an expansion done. Instead, Emperor Myron has suggested that we don't vote on every expansion. Kings could start a negative vote - a vote denying the expansion - based on their own wishes, or if the community as a whole has objections. This would not be used to deny a land claim in the case of conflict with another player's land or future borders, but only for expansions done without conflict. It would be used to deny expansions primarily to people who haven't filled in the lands they have already claimed. The idea is also to make this vote impossible to call after 1-2 weeks after the claim has been made.

III. Claims wars This section is simple. We don't think it's a good idea to have votes on every land claim, because this would indirectly prevent claims wars. In the case where someone has not had their claim denied by the Council, and there is another player that has an objection based on a competing claim/disagreeing with the border, war is a valid means of contesting the claim.

IV. What is an unruly expansion?

We will also need to discuss what is an unruly expansion:

* How much area of current claims must have counties in them?
* What is considered enough to be called a county?
* How much can each rank claim at a time? 1 biomeish kind of area for a count at a time, three for a duke?

We don't have too many suggestions yet here.

Summary

Please read the post above and give thought before you post. Consider different scenarios and outcomes. Everyone's opinion matters on this!

Thank you for your time!

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice

Rest of the ideas put forth here look good.

Unruly Expansion:

Could be seen as any further claims made by a Noble before their current claims have been seen to be reasonably in the eyes of their peers ( The rest of the players ) filled in and made use of. This does not mean 100% super developed, but an attempt made to utilise some space between major counties and fill it in with details such as small roads, details from the likes of houses, small bridges, tree formations between settlements. Signs and other things?

Thoughts?

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Petra Ravnikaar of The Veil

This could use more discussion!

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice

Reminder, this needs discussion! I'll be drafting a law on this in a few days, your input is desired!

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice

I agree with a good deal of what is being proposed. I agree it is important to have a formal set of rules or guidelines for land claim approval, but that any formal process should not unduly burden the kings with the need to vote every time a noble wishes to expand.

I like the idea that the council can pass an executive order declaring the land claim to be unlawful, but I would stipulate that all parties should attempt arbitration before it reaches this point. If, for example, a noble is claiming an additional 5 counties and is met with general disapproval from his peers, alternative claims should be discussed, such as reducing the above claim to 2 counties which may be more acceptable to the general community.

Perhaps the councils vote is only required upon the request of the House of Dukes?

As for what would constitute an unruly claim, I believe it is not desirable to enshrine in law what is and is not acceptable with regards to land size and location. Each land claim will be different and each should be reviewed on a case by case basis.

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Prince Septimus Cersil, Lord of Wychwood
Minister of Surveyors and Civil Engineers
Warden of the North
- Recipient of the Pyrencian Good Effort Award
- 2016 Winner of the 'Medal of S'alright'
- Stronger than an ant
- The Tallest

Well, technically there is nothing unlawful about claiming unclaimed land. It's about the Empire recognizing that claim. It's legal to claim land, but the nobles of the Empire just might not recognize that claim. It's not so much as an executive order as it is the Council voting to (as a body) recognize a claim or not.



That would be the idea - that the person making the claim first has the responsibility to prove they deserve the claim. If they can't, then a King can initiate the aforementioned vote. This Council vote to decide on whether they recognize a claim or not does NOT apply to cases where there is an actual conflict. Conflict would happen only if there was no actual problem with an expansion, in terms of that realm being able to justify an expansion because they need/want a specific piece of land. This bill would NOT be used to prevent a war, for example.



I actually think, and many others do as well, that there should just be set numbers for how much land a Count, Duke, King can claim at one time. There would need to be some exceptions, for example, if a person brings in Vassals and they literally have no other counties for them to settle - like in your case, in Wychwood, you'd have some kind of law saying it was ok for you to have claimed 2 counties at once. The few people I've heard discuss this seem to think that a Count can claim a single county at a time, a Duke/King up to three at one time.



Nicholas had a really good argument against that, but I don't recall the specifics. Personally, I feel that the Kings, since they set the standards for this stuff in terms of what is needed for rank ascension and expansions, should be the ones to have authority here. They also serve as a little less biased people to do so, as they really won't be expanding (except for the newest Kingdoms possibly).



There is merit to your argument. We can't create laws for every exact situation. However, there can be guidelines and very loose language to prevent things like the following:

* Single buildings being called a county (unless it's like a freaking complex or something astounding like that)
* a few buildings with no details and unfinished interiors being used to justify an expansion
* Gathering armies of vassals and claiming land despite some of those vassals quitting early on and leaving their areas basically devoid of anything
* Using a few towns barely good enough to justify massive, massive areas

Just my thoughts, others may not agree of course. Personally, I'd rather see smaller realms with more content and less space between settlements than sprawling empty areas with isolated settlements.

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice

Good points made there gentlemen.

I'll attempt to speak about this on Discord next time Im on (Friday during day EST).

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Petra Ravnikaar of The Veil

I'll give this another day or so, then write up proposed language.

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice

Some guidelines over what should and shouldnt be considered a " complete area" as mentioned above should be in there. I am all for more densely populated areas with more settlements near each other as this is a much better feel than tracks of potentially wasted land being claimed at once.

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Petra Ravnikaar of The Veil

Here's some proposed language. I'd love to get some feedback on this!


Land Claims Act

Definition of a County

A county can vary widely in size and biome composition. The definition of a county is interpreted on a case by case basis.

Process for Making a Land Claim

Nobles of the Mercurian Empire may at any time make a claim for land to add to their realm in the form of a letter (post) to the Imperial Court. The following items are required to justify the claim:

* A map of both the immediate area and in context with regional and/or imperial maps
* Proof of utilization of current claims
* Statement of the purpose for the land claim

Approval of a Land Claim

After the Land Claim has been made in the Imperial Court, the claim is open to comments from members of the Mercurian Empire. Individuals may make comments and ask questions during the week following the claim.

During this week-long process, any member of the Council of the Crowned can call for a vote of the Council of the Crowned if the Council and/or the members of the Mercurian Empire feel the expansion is an overextension of the realm making the claim. The bill for this vote should be worded so that a "no" vote is a vote against the claim.

If no vote is called for during the week following the claim, the claim can no longer be challenged in the Imperial Court.

Land Claim Size

The amount of land claimable at one time corresponds with the rank, infrastructure, settlement size, and reasons provided in the land claim posted in the Imperial Court. Builds made by vassals and the addition of many new vassals are also considered.

Claims War

A noble of the Mercurian Empire may declare war on the realm making a Land Claim during or after the initial claim process. Terms should be agreed upon before the war officially begins. If there is no agreement even after the war is over, a judicial hearing shall decide the fate of the land claim.

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Ealdorman Cerdic Beoden Accynnafon of Östlond
Runner Up of the Glas Claddach Boat Building Competition
Minister of Justice