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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 26th, 2016, 1:23 am 
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King

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 1:05 am
Posts: 476
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Mark Accynnafon wrote:
Kyn wrote:
Haha. We get it already. Legally the position doesn't exist. Cool.

The Regent is still the Regent could just mean that he is still respected by us due to the countless hours we spent with him ;). Not to point out the obvious for you though.


Of course.

Nowhere did I give any disrespect to another person. Yet, I've been called rude, names of various server criminals, etc. I've been nothing but polite to regent and had some great times/discussions with him.

I'm not so sure about my continued participation here. I was only trying to represent the voices of less forum active and more in game active people whom I talk to on Discord. It's amazing how the least active post the most when "tradition" is in the way. No disrespect, simply a fact. I wanted to avoid a brewing shit storm, one that has been brewing over the summer due to Regent's return to the forums. Many are still VERY bitter over what happened - what he did literally almost killed the community. From what I've been told, the server community would have been gone had Siden not taken the responsibility and also managed to finally get a server backup after a lot of discussion. People are mad ( obviously I'm only invested in the present, that stuff didn't effect me in anyway) and the present situation is that many people are upset by things said on the forums by Regent - the crest was the boiling point.

I tried talking with Sam and Scrios about it, expressing my concerns, to no avail.

Just because more people aren't posting ( after all, it's still school/work hours for some people even now) doesn't mean they agree/disagree. Some people don't voice their opinion on controversial topics because they are worried about rank ascensions and the like.

I really didn't want to create a mess. I wanted to prevent one. I've done my best to present logical arguments, only to be told "they make no sense." Throughout my time here, I've also (I think) done a good job of seeing things from the opposing viewpoint. Why has their been so much resistance to such a little thing? Are you Kings/Dukes incapable of seeing things from the other side? Why do you think those of us on this side are trying to be insulting? Why are you taking so much offense so quickly? Do you lack the empathy to see how some people are upset?


You are right Mark. I think that some of us have been a bit to harsh, and have not done a good job at keeping a cool head. So, I apologize for anything I might have said towards anyone who might have felt hurt or disrespected. The Empire deserves better than pointless bickering, and I only added to that.

I think we need to put it to a vote, after more have had time to voice their opinions. I will no longer interject any thoughts here in the interest of keeping the peace. Also, I hope that nobody feels as though they cannot voice their opinions out of fear of losing out on a future rank ascension. We generally love hearing opposing viewpoints, and there have been many things proposed in the past that I do not agree with. This doesn't mean that I base my voting on that at all. Please, all, voice you opinions so that the true majority opinion can be found!

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 26th, 2016, 1:24 am 
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King

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 5:52 pm
Posts: 934
Things are getting out of hand.

I'm currently packing for a year-long overseas working spell and can't fully articulate my thoughts here, but :

I urge everyone here to take a step back. One of the most heated discussion in recent times, and the subject of such controversy is ... crest design?

Yes, there are valid legal arguments. Yes, there are valid traditional arguments. Yes, there are valid personal and emotional arguments.

But, without dismissing anyone's opinions here, I am truly puzzled at how quickly this discussion on a seemingly minute matter has become so tense, so fierce, so antagonistic. Well-articulated, respectful discourse is degenerating with worrying speed into pointed, short retorts that do less to come to a solution on this issue and more to needlessly breed ill will where none needs to exist. This is a worrying trend.

Let us all take a step back here and approach this from a fresh perspective. There are multiple, valid perspectives at work here, and we're capable of a higher level of discourse than this.

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 26th, 2016, 3:52 am 
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Duke

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 6:01 pm
Posts: 1336
Location: Michigan, USA
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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 26th, 2016, 4:10 am 
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King

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 10:17 am
Posts: 3862
Location: Stirling - Scotland
It's 4am and I'm away at a friends for a few days. Damn. I missed all the discussion. And I'm also limited to my phone. I'll be sure to come on discord on Saturday night and speak then about the points raised here and In the other threads active today. I want my stance to be understood as well as possible, and of course challenged and questioned as it should be to make sure it's of sound grounding.

not sure if it's worth replying to each post I was going to reply to note as I've missed the party so to speak, I would have been posting if I were able to!

See you Saturday guys!

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 26th, 2016, 5:05 am 
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Count

Joined: June 10th, 2015, 10:03 am
Posts: 115
Uh... well, I guess I'll chime in on this as well, although my long stint of inactivity might have blinded me to some of the tensions that have obviously arisen while I was away. Hang on everyone, this is gonna be hella long.

Firstly, I might not have been on in a while, but I've been around a pretty significant amount of time. Predating any of the issues with the Regent occurring, before the new world etc. It’s been a long time, and I’ve seen people come and go, but I haven’t seen people get this uptight or antagonistic in my time here. I want to make a point that this wasn’t the feel of the server I originally applied to so long ago. Yes, the topics can get heated, and many legal debates over seemingly small points have occurred, but since when did we fall into coming across so callously and with so little respect and friendliness for one another?

I’ve never been in this journey with all of you because I enjoy the legal jargon. I graduated with a history degree a year ago, and my love for stories and history and importance definitely played a large part in wanting to contribute to a collaborative effort with all of you. And furthermore the people were a large part of the enjoyment I’ve had with this server. Hell, I despise survival mode and only play creative in every other instance but this server. However the people and the sense of creating something more than the sum of our parts has always brought me back (even if it is sporadically so).

As to the points of consistently bringing up the faults of the Regent, while I hesitate to call it a witch hunt as some have stated, it definitely seems like he’s being put under a far harsher microscope, or at the very least being treated with less friendliness in regards to mistakes or choices he made. I’m not personal friends with him, and I don’t know him like many of the other original founders of the server might. That being said, he has always (except for his absence after the crimes at Ikwe) been a presence on this server and an important one at that. He was here when I first joined in like 2013 or whenever, and I’d like to see him stick around. I think that his admission of guilt, his absence, and his highly evident attempts at helping out with the forums, and trying to make amends with those of us that were affected at the time are more than enough for people to move on.

There is no point in holding on to grudges and for people to continually bring these things back up. As I tend to bring up far too often, history is my passion. But I think it is important in this instance to stop dwelling on the past at the risk of hurting our future. I don’t want to see this server torn apart over petty disagreement and hostile tones, whether obvious or undercurrents.
It might just be my own personal views, but one of the reasons I hesitate to apply to move up from the position of count is because I don’t really care at all about the legalities involved in this server. Sure, I abide by them, but I have no interests in debating them or creating new laws. I’m here for the people and the experience.

As such, I could care less about crests and debating the perception of importance with how people use them. I see this argument over crests as a mere symptom of underlying issues between different groups, and it is honestly a good idea for everyone to step back and really think about why they are a part of this server, and what they want from it.

I’ve gone on for far too long and probably sound far too preachy for a 23 year old, but I just wanted to hopefully remind everyone what this server is really about. We are all people, and hopefully we are all friends, or at the least acquaintances. It’s time that we really make an effort to forgive one another, remind ourselves what we are in this for, and to unify at the very least to make progress whether it is historical, legal, architectural, or so forth. I don’t want to see small or petty legalities ruin the fun that we all have here.

Anyways, I don’t care about this specific issue, I just want to voice my opinions on the larger issues at hand.

Love all y’all
-Andrew

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 26th, 2016, 6:11 am 
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Duke

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 8:19 pm
Posts: 1150
Location: Waterloo, ON, Canada
Thanks for the post Barath, your opinion is valued. I'll be mulling over this for the next few days and I hope everyone understand I had no ill will with what I was writing. Just wanted my opinion out there. Anyway big shoutout to Myron and Barath for keeping cool heads, and reminding us about why we are on the server, to have fun, plain and simple. Let's not do this again too soon, I love you all very much and can't wait to chat with you soon!

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It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out of your door, You step into the Road, and if you don't keep your feet, there is no knowing where you might be swept off to." -Bilbo Baggins

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 26th, 2016, 4:27 pm 
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Settler

Joined: May 30th, 2015, 12:45 pm
Posts: 63
I think this thread has blown a small issue out if proportion.

One of theany strengths of our community is it's great history and this is not a new crest The Regent is proposing but an established historic one.

The Regent has made enormous contributions to this server and I think we should respect the historical precedent and allow The Regent to keep his well established and historic crest.


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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 26th, 2016, 4:31 pm 
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Joined: April 28th, 2016, 6:15 pm
Posts: 2001
Location: California
Can people stop commenting? If you keep bumping this, it's just going to get worse.

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 Post subject: Re: Crest of the Emperor
PostPosted: August 30th, 2016, 12:25 am 
King

Joined: February 24th, 2016, 8:29 pm
Posts: 563
I would also like to extend my greatest and deepest thanks to our Highness, for his calm and objectivity. And for all the accounts of everyone here, across both sides. There is a very understandable divide between some traditionalist versus modernist perspectives, and a healthy and intense debate about it can only be healthy deep down. I apologize for any ill harboured feelings or energies, but extend great appreciation to everyone for your thoughts.

Having been absent for travel, the kingdom is sharing it's formal and official policies in the new crest law thread.

Thanks again friends, all of you, for making this place the success it is.


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