I agree with Liserett that having a defined forum/place for serfs and counts to pitch in their thoughts on a potential bill would be useful. Several times I've found myself wanting to make a comment or suggestion, but holding back because I don't want to step on anyone's toes and offend the higher a ups. There is a well of opinion that isn't being tapped currently

_________________
Prince Septimus Cersil, Lord of Wychwood
Minister of Surveyors and Civil Engineers
Warden of the North
- Recipient of the Pyrencian Good Effort Award
- 2016 Winner of the 'Medal of S'alright'
- Stronger than an ant
- The Tallest

Absolutely! This is an integral part of our community process and isn't being threatened. If language threatens this, let's fix that.

I should chime in here, as I was a proponent of tightening the forum guidelines language and drafted the proposed legislation currently in Parliament.

------------

To take a step back, we have a Diplomatic Court with 6 subforums with which to conduct diplomacy in Hermertia:

Imperial Court

This is, as Liserett stated, the imperial channel for any kind of diplomacy that any member of Hermertia wishes to bring to the Empire's attention. Proposals for land claims, trade agreements, politics, report of questionable behaviour of players, you name it. This will always be open to everyone, from Serfs to Kings - everyone has the right to present ideas and opinions to the Empire.

Council of the Crowned

An area reserved strictly for discussion between members of the Council . It will probably always be used sparingly, for issues such as internal Council decisions or discussions.

House of Dukes

An area reserved strictly for discussion and legislation by the Dukes of Hermertia. This area has been used overwhelmingly for legislative purposes, either reacting to bills passed by the Council or passing those of our own; however, it is also there for general discussion purposes between those of that rank.

Parliament

The location where legislation is proposed, discussed, debated, and voted on by the Council of the Crowned. It is absolutely a place where the community can and should debate and offer opinions on legislation as it is proposed and being drafted. It has recently become custom to have one thread for proposed legislation that contains the idea behind a new law or a change to an existing one, and includes all debate and discussion, and allows the community to work together to draft legal language, then a second thread containing the finalized language, that is voted on by the Council of the Crowned. See this thread as an example for discussion and debate, and this thread for the voted-upon finalized language, for an example of how I feel we can most effectively execute parliamentary debate and legislation.

I think this about illustrates my opinion on how the parliament should function: a place for discussion and debate by all on proposed ideas, and voting by the Council on what the community ends up with after that process.

NOTE: I say community, but my current proposed language states that serfs should be excluded from Parliament. I think this is almost certainly a mistake and regret including that prohibition. The language came about during a discussion between myself and Vaethra, and I initially saw it as justified given that to attain the rank of Count an individual must have proven themselves invested in Hermertia. Of course, this is enormous potential for serfs to be gretly invested in Hermertia and absolutely able to comment on proposed legislation - Caeser is but one example, and my dear late friend Biakko was herself a serf for a great part of her life in which she prover herself an incredibly committed Hermertian. Let's hear some thoughts on this, but I'm ready to change the language at a moment's notice.

Cabinet

The offices of the Cabinet Ministers. The distinction on what should go where has been raised in another thread and is a great question: I'm of the opinion that the library will clarify matters by absorbing both things that go in Scholars and Mystics's "history" section and much of the Ministry of History.

Judicial Court

Used for War Declarations, requests for international support, and criminal investigations and trials. This will proably always be fairly sparse as Hermertia is generally fairly conflict-averse. NOTE: Some war declarations have been posted in the Imperial Court - this is wrong and should be modified by forum mods if it occurs.

------------

I hope this clarifies things somewhat. Please let me know your thoughts, all, on if you agree with this or if you feel other changes are ripe to be made.

_________________
Wysterian Labourer's Council
Currently Holding Stewardship of Wysteria
Minister for Applications and Settlement
Forums Administrator

Hey all!

Seriously fruitful discussion has resulted in a great new proposed format - please give me time to write that here!

_________________
Wysterian Labourer's Council
Currently Holding Stewardship of Wysteria
Minister for Applications and Settlement
Forums Administrator

See, I was thinking, and while I fully agree that serfs and counts have a right to be heard, i am concerned that the posts in parliment could possibly get too cluttered, since it is after the place where kings go to vote, if it is also the discussion. Furthermore, since we usually change the wording at least once or twice before final votes, that in itself can clutter up the posts. maybe we could consider adding an area for the rough drafts of bills from the council, or using the parliment for that, and having final votes in the Council of the Crowned forum

_________________
By the will of Azarn
-Erastil
-King of Pyrencia
-The Hydra
For a full list of titles, please see enclosed document.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=741

Hey!

A number of us speaking together last night devised what I think is a good idea for parliamentary classification of posts. We can have contained within the Parliament subforum 3 subforums:

1) Proposed Legislation

This is where ideas are proposed or suggested, and where discussion and debate is open to all members of the community - this takes care of providing a space for the kind of debate currently happening in Parliament.

2) Council of the Crowned Voting

Once a potential bill has been extensively revised and reworked subject to community opinion in the above subforum, its finalized proposed language is posted in a a new thread here used strictly for discussion betwen and voting by the Council of the Crowned.

3) Passed Legislation

When a bill is passed, its final voting thread is moves from the above subforum to here, providing a neat record of all passed legislation.

_________________
Wysterian Labourer's Council
Currently Holding Stewardship of Wysteria
Minister for Applications and Settlement
Forums Administrator

A fruitful brainstorming which led to a great solution to multiple issues that have been fairly raised. Good work all, and good with Nicholas for tracking all of this.

This is a great solution, thanks to all who were part of that discussion =)

_________________
Lady Liserett of the House O'Kleefe
Countess of Chester-le-Ford, Wysteria
Deputy Minister of Hermertian History
Appointed Minister of Wysterian Architecture

I love when we come up with solutions. I love this community

_________________
Duchess Celestine of Reinen
-Marshall of the Scrubby Scrubby task force.


"Music in the soul can be heard by the universe" ~Lao Tzu

I love when we start fires and gimpy punches pigmen

_________________
By the will of Azarn
-Erastil
-King of Pyrencia
-The Hydra
For a full list of titles, please see enclosed document.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=741

We know you do

_________________
Ainmire Sera-Blodh of House Flenadrison, second of his name, King in the South, Ruler of Carrickshire, and slayer of false Kings.
"The Crippled King"
"Flanders"